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  • Prison Prestige Scores / Time (or Rank) Multipliers

    Sequela

    New Member
    #1
    First of all. I know this is very long. If you can't be asked reading all of it, that's fine. TL;DR is in the bold bits. Just read those. Those are the important bits. As for the rest, it's mostly explanation. If you do chose to read all of it, sorry for making you read an essay but thanks!

    --

    The minor controversy around the new release of Prisons, V10, has been dominated by the shouts of the version being ridiculously P2W (Pay to Win), and the evidence we have at our disposal doesn’t suggest the contrary. We have some players, who, in the same time that another player hasn’t even reached Prestige 1 yet, are already past the Prestige 300 of the Prison God, and beyond. At the time of writing, the top prestige is about 565, which lots of players on the server, as well as myself, think is ridiculous, considering that those who have played for similar amounts of time have only just been able to prestige for the first, second or third time.

    The reason for this? Money.

    Other players have more money and are willing to spend more money on ranks and perks to make their gameplay easier and more enjoyable.

    The response to our previous P2W shouts has largely been that Prisons is, and always has been, a game mode which pits together effort and payment, and that’s just how it is. In such a way that, those can’t or don’t pay for these advantages, have to work twice as hard for half the reward.

    I don’t want to take away from players achievements with the purchased advantages, nor do I want to deem these paid advantages as useless. I mean, 560 odd prestiges in less than a day is extremely impressive.

    But here we get to the next bit. I ask the next question, so, what do you expect from non-ranked players, or those with low ranks, who haven’t paid for advantages? Because at this point, it’s rather useless for them to play at all, because it’s almost impossible for them to reach the same feats as those who have paid.

    The two responses I got from this were, to be frank, stupid. The first, that non-ranked players “should just prestige and vote and use their ad balance (/mm) to buy a rank or an advantage to help themselves”. While yes, this does seem like the obvious answer, some perspective is needed.

    COAL RANK – 2.50 – that’s getting to prestige 25 (which is a feat in itself) to claim the 2.5 ad balance OR voting 7 times every day for 8 days.

    That doesn’t seem too bad, no? Except, from what I’m hearing from coal ranked members, it barely does anything to help, and it takes them about the same time to prestige as someone unranked.

    IRON RANK – 7.50 – so three times as expensive – to prestige 75 OR voting 7 times a day every day for 22 days, without spending any of your ad balance.

    Again, consider that those I’ve spoken to with this rank testify that this rank has barely increased their progress compared to a non-ranked player. I’m sure you can do maths, but just think with the same logic as applied above for these perks (and a reminder – this is in a sale):

    SMALL PLOTMINE – 5$, but useless unless you have a rank as you can’t sell your profits
    60PICK - same level as a gold pickaxe – 2.50$
    GOLD RANK – 17.50$

    Let’s say you wanted to compete at the same level as those with all of these paid advantages:

    10 WARDEN KEYS – 7.50$ - for multipliers – usually bought in x3 or x4
    AUTOSELL – 20$
    FLY – 10$
    QUARTZ RANK – 125$
    LARGE PLOTMINE – 20$

    How much ad balance is that? How long would that take?

    By the time that this happens, those players with advantages would have probably destroyed all the prestige boards, which brings me onto my second response: “they should just put in a lot of effort and grind hard every week to make it onto prestige top, to get the 25$ ad balance to get ranks and perks”. My response to this is the logical one: how in the hell do you expect people to prestige the same amount in the same amount of time as the same people who can prestige OVER 500 TIMES in LESS THAN A DAY? It’s quite frankly, an irrational, unreasonable, idiotic response, which provoked ire.

    This doesn’t even consider the mental aspects of any video game:

    More payment = More ease/ LESS EFFORT = More enjoyment = More playing
    Less payment = More effort for half the reward – HARDER = Less enjoyment = Less playing or giving up all together.

    I understand Momento is a business, and the whole point of a business is to make money to earn yourself a profit, but at the same time, do you really want to build your whole player base with the richest players? It sounds like a business’ dream, sure; however, it causes reduced competitiveness as those with the money will just pay their way to the top, and this version of prisons allows those players to do just that – it’ll become boring, and instead of there being any challenges, people will just buy the stuff they want instead of working for it. The atmosphere would just become incredibly toxic and negative. It'd be, in the easiest of terms, a pissing contest - who can spend the most money?

    I was told “if you think it’s so unfair, then come up with a solution for yourself, and we’ll listen to it”.

    Challenge Accepted, fergy.

    So, onto the idea:

    I suggest we keep the raw prestige top scores, as to not take away from the effort or achievement of the players that have managed to prestige ridiculous amounts of times in a week, but as I mentioned before, this list will, and is, dominated by those players who have multitudes of paid advantages, and this does not look like changing.

    For those without the top ranks or pickaxes or plot mines or multipliers, it is quite simply impossible for them to break anywhere near the prestige top list like you suggest, and this, for me, in the context of the diversity and fairness of the server has to change.

    I suggest a sort of time multiplier, although you could also call it a rank multiplier. Except, with difference to other multipliers on the server, this would give the highest ‘multiplier’ to those with the lowest rank, and the lowest to those with the highest.

    We all know it’s easier for those with higher ranks to level up, and harder for those with lower ranks.

    The multiplier would work to equal out this discrepancy in the following way:

    Let’s say a Quartz Rank prestige 100 times in a week. Because they’re quartz rank, they’d get a multiplier of 1. 100x1 = 100. That’d be their prestige score. 100.

    Let’s go down a few ranks. I haven’t exactly worked out the logistics of the perfect scores of each multiplier however I expect it’d be based on how long it takes the person with a certain rank to collect 2T using a mid-level pickaxe, which in this server, is around Obsidian level.

    Okay, so let’s use the example of an Obsidian Rank. They managed to prestige 50 times in the week. Due to their rank, they’d get a multiple of 2. 50x2 = same prestige score, roughly same amount of work.

    Down to Iron Rank. 25 times in the week, multiplier of 4. 25x4 = 100, you get the deal.

    Let’s go down to the non-ranked players. They managed to prestige 10 times in a week, multiplier of 10. 10x10 =100

    All in all, I think this method of time multipliers and using ‘prestige scores’ instead of raw prestiges to give out ad balance at the end of each week is a more fair way of ranking achievements.

    You’ll probably disregard this idea because it doesn’t take into account perks, plotmines, pickaxes, keys for multipliers etc. But that’s almost impossible to logistically work out, so I didn’t. I know the system isn’t perfect, but in the context of fairness, which is what we’re going for, to phase out the P2W attitude, it’s certainly better than what we have at the moment.

    --

    Thank you for reading all my waffling, if you even did.

    Please leave any genuine feedback you have down below. I'm expecting everyone to tell me I'm stupid and this would never work, so, I'd be delighted if I was proved wrong. Although this is an issue that doesn't directly affect me, I feel that it is one that needs addressing for the people whom it does affect.

    Sequela.
     
    #2
    in all honesty am i losing a lot of hope in prison to. I've been playing for 16hours all togheter and i've only prestiged 3/4 times (with golden rank and spending 3 hours not mining). I think that multiplier idea is a good idea. because the quartz people are starting to be absolutly toxic. They get anything they want, they start laughing wth people in the bossbar (that's anonymous, so we don't know who does). i've seen a lot of non ranked players already quite. Is this what you really want? If you base your comunity on people who pay and pay. your community will decline, cause one day those players will have everything they have, and it will even become boring for them. Give new people a chance to breath, this way you can sustain you followersbase.
     
    #3
    i just want to add this to this too.
    Let us say that you work for a company (hypothetical story). You work 20 hours a day and get payed 1$/hour. What will make you not quite your job?

    I know this example is extreem. but that's how i feel about prison atm.

    Look, i do not come from a wealthy family. My mom takes care of her kids on her own, didn't have a job for a while. My dad is sick, doesn't have a job. and my stepmom is half disabled and works for 8 hours in a week. And don't forget the 3 kids they have. Now we are a few years later. my mom has a job again, and only has to take care of me now. and in my dads household everything is the same. I am now studying in college. Do you think i have the money to put in a game? let me say you, i don't. And you don't have to discriminate people who were or are going through a lot of shit (mentally, economically,...) it hurts to see a server you grew fund of in a few days change like that. hopefully a change will come...
    Thx for listening
     
    Last edited:

    Dulsl

    Formerly known as DerpyEagle_
    #4
    I suggest a sort of time multiplier, although you could also call it a rank multiplier. Except, with difference to other multipliers on the server, this would give the highest ‘multiplier’ to those with the lowest rank, and the lowest to those with the highest.

    We all know it’s easier for those with higher ranks to level up, and harder for those with lower ranks.

    The multiplier would work to equal out this discrepancy in the following way:

    Let’s say a Quartz Rank prestige 100 times in a week. Because they’re quartz rank, they’d get a multiplier of 1. 100x1 = 100. That’d be their prestige score. 100.


    Let’s go down a few ranks. I haven’t exactly worked out the logistics of the perfect scores of each multiplier however I expect it’d be based on how long it takes the person with a certain rank to collect 2T using a mid-level pickaxe, which in this server, is around Obsidian level.

    Okay, so let’s use the example of an Obsidian Rank. They managed to prestige 50 times in the week. Due to their rank, they’d get a multiple of 2. 50x2 = same prestige score, roughly same amount of work.


    Down to Iron Rank. 25 times in the week, multiplier of 4. 25x4 = 100, you get the deal.

    Let’s go down to the non-ranked players. They managed to prestige 10 times in a week, multiplier of 10. 10x10 =100

    All in all, I think this method of time multipliers and using ‘prestige scores’ instead of raw prestiges to give out ad balance at the end of each week is a more fair way of ranking achievements.

    You’ll probably disregard this idea because it doesn’t take into account perks, plotmines, pickaxes, keys for multipliers etc. But that’s almost impossible to logistically work out, so I didn’t. I know the system isn’t perfect, but in the context of fairness, which is what we’re going for, to phase out the P2W attitude, it’s certainly better than what we have at the moment.
    This is probably the best idea here, and it would make the server better to distribute the ranks. I like the organization, the idea itself, and the time it probably took you to write this. However, people spent money, and they deserve their advantages. Maybe tone down the advantages a little, or tone up the advantages of one who spends no money. But as you said, you do not need money. Use in-game credit. In-game credit took me to where I am today.
     
    Last edited:
    #5
    This is a good idea, but the problem with this is that people that have bought quartz rank, autosell, pickaxes and more stuff like that aren't getting their moneys worth if they have the same multipliers as a non-donor. Prison is about mining and getting your way up the prestiges, you can't expect someone to pay $0 into the game and play 8 hours a day and still be the same prestige as someone that has put $125 into the game with 8 hours played.

    I see your point, kind of, but people that pay money need to get their moneys worth.
     
    #6
    This is probably the best idea here, and it would make the server better to distribute the ranks. I like the organization, the idea itself, and the time it probably took you to write this. However, people spent money, and they deserve their advantages. Maybe tone down the advantages a little, or tone up the advantages of one who spends no money. But as you said, you do not need money. Use in-game credit. In-game credit took me to where I am today.
    This is a good idea, but the problem with this is that people that have bought quartz rank, autosell, pickaxes and more stuff like that aren't getting their moneys worth if they have the same multipliers as a non-donor. Prison is about mining and getting your way up the prestiges, you can't expect someone to pay $0 into the game and play 8 hours a day and still be the same prestige as someone that has put $125 into the game with 8 hours played.

    I see your point, kind of, but people that pay money need to get their moneys worth.
    I don't mean to sound rude here, but at no point did I say that we completely scrap the whole prestige top thing, for the exact reason that the achievements of those that chose to pay should not be devalued, and those that have paid, keep their advantages and feel that they have sufficient advantage for the money they have spent. In fact, if you read this bit which was in the post originally, you'll see that I do agree with you:

    I suggest we keep the raw prestige top scores, as to not take away from the effort or achievement of the players that have managed to prestige ridiculous amounts of times in a week, but as I mentioned before, this list will, and is, dominated by those players who have multitudes of paid advantages, and this does not look like changing.

    .
    I suggested instead that another category be added, to go alongside the prestige top scores. One that gives a lot less in prizes, which, after discussion in discord, has become sort of a 'Raw Blocks Mined' top, excluding fortune, which would be a lot more inclusive for those with lower ranks, and directly pits together the efforts of the players, taking out any potential advantage they have. The prizes for the top of this list, obviously, have to be a lot lower, and they are.

    Also, I'm sure you've seen by now that multipliers for all ranks have been nerfed by about half by the decimal point (e.g 1.6 --> 1.3) to make the whole process fairer and more balanced, so the advantages were toned down because quite frankly they were ridiculous at the beginning.
     
    #7
    Let’s say you wanted to compete at the same level as those with all of these paid advantages:

    10 WARDEN KEYS – 7.50$ - for multipliers – usually bought in x3 or x4
    AUTOSELL – 20$
    FLY – 10$
    QUARTZ RANK – 125$
    LARGE PLOTMINE – 20$

    Sequela.
    If you buy 10 warden keys. There is a chance to get Autosell and Fly. You can also get Emerald out of it and then you need to upgrade your rank 3 times.

    Emerald - Quartz is $87.50
    10 Warden keys $7.50
    Large plotmine $20


    This is way cheaper then you mentioned above